Ep30 – Online Reputation Management Tips For Brand Protection

online-reputation-management-tips-advice

Keynotes

If you’re a business owner and you’re trading online, then protecting your brand is absolutely essential. In this episode we provide some great tips and advice as to how you can perform reputation management, how much a bad review or negative piece of content might be costing your business, what tools and software are available to help you, and how you can act quickly if someone does post a negative review about your business.

As always, if you have any questions be sure to ask them below and we will answer them.

In this episode

01:29 – What is reputation management?
02:20 – What types of content warrant reputation management?
03:58 – Where should business owners start in terms of finding negative feedback and reviews ?
04:30 – How to use Google and search query operators to find negative reviews
06:00 – How to use a free tool that Google provides in order to be instantly notified of negative reviews
07:30 – Being proactive and getting to a negative review before it blows up in your face
08:30 – A few more search query operators that will help you find stuff
09:00 – Where do you start in terms of actioning a negative review?
12:05 – How best to respond to a negative review – keeping your calm
17:25 – My quick survey and the results I got – would you still work with someone that had a negative review on the first page of Google?
19:50 – How to get positive reviews from your customers almost every time
22:00 – What types of properties can you promote to get on the first page of Google and push the bad stuff away?
22:50 – Quick tip about how to get your social profiles on the first page (again pushing any bad stuff away)
25:15 – A huge tip to prevent negative reviews from coming back over and over again on the first page
27:05 – How to calculate how much a negative review is costing you per month
33:30 – Recapping the main points
35:00 – Byron goes for a piece of cake and I play with my calculator

Transcription

John Romaine: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of the Works Media Podcast, I’m your host John Romaine and joining me is —

Byron Trzeciak: Byron Trzeciak.

John Romaine: This is Episode Number 30 and in today’s Podcast we’re talking about reputation management. How you going Byron?

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, very well John, how are you?

John Romaine: Good thanks, another busy week.

Byron Trzeciak: Always busy.

John Romaine: Another exciting week of SEO.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, exactly. This is a topic we haven’t focused on much in the past but certainly something that you and I have been doing a little bit more of. I guess when it comes to online business it’s the same as offline business. You want to make sure that you’ve got a good face and there’s nothing affecting your business.

John Romaine: Yeah, well I’ve been — I’ve had a few inquirers for reputation management towards the beginning of this week, end of last, and, in fact, I’ve got a couple of clients onboard at the moment that I’m helping out with reputation management and I wanted to touch on this topic today because I had an inquiry from a prospect that came forward and said, look, we’ve got all of these negative reviews and just for the listeners, reputation management in the online space is about assisting businesses, push negative — either get rid of negative reviews from the first page of Google or push them sort of at least off of the first page.

Byron Trzeciak: Yep.

John Romaine: There’s many different ways of doing that which we might touch on in just a moment but I’m sure for anyone that’s used Google that may have searched for a business that they might be interested in working with, if you type in their business name and you see Page 1 Position 3, oh, don’t work with this company, they ripped me off. Chances are you might reconsider working with them.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, definitely. I think it’s probably not just reviews it’s probably like one that I’ve been doing recently sort of negative media attention. You know, I guess — I wouldn’t classify it so much as a review, it was more sort of the media focusing on a certain area that for a business that had changed hands or gone under or whatever reason, so there’s a whole range of things why you might want to remove some form of content I guess off the first page for example.

John Romaine: Yeah, that’s true, I mean, I’ve — yeah, I mean, you think about reviews you’re probably thinking about TripAdvisor and sites like Yelp and Google Reviews which, oh God, that whole space gets a bit tricky because it’s really easy for a competitor or a disgruntled ex-employee or something to jump on and post a negative review and then everyone is left in a position of, oh that’s false and then trying to get that removed but, yeah, reviews is I guess one description or one way of explaining reputation management.

But, you know, I mean, I’ve seen articles, editorials, forum discussions — all sorts of — Forum discussions is another one that comes up often. Has anyone worked with such and such and you just click through the discussion and it can go pear-shaped. And also if you type in business name followed by reviews or review or testimonials that can often bring up sort of unwanted stuff in the search results as well.

Byron Trzeciak: Definitely. All right, well let’s maybe talk about the first steps when it comes to assessing your online reputation; where do you think businesses should start just to see what’s out there and what they’re contending with?

John Romaine: Yeah, I think probably the most straightforward answer there would be to just go to Google. I mean, we’re talking about Google here, we’re not talking about business owners searching for themselves within business directories and so forth but strictly speaking Google, common sense would tell you that it’s just a matter of typing in your business name. That’s always the best place to start. You want to make sure that no one is sort of blasting the Web with negative feedback and reviews about your business. So start with your business name and then, of course, you can try your business name followed by review.

I think — I published an article about this so I’m just trying to remember a couple of the examples that I gave. Another one that comes to mind is using auto suggest because quite often if you’re typing in your business name, Google as you know, will suggest additional terms that tie-in with the phrase or search term that you’re looking for so it’s always worthwhile checking those as well.

But for most business owners they — it’s just a matter of typing in their business name, it would probably be sufficient enough. I’m just talking — I’m talking more so from a local SEO perspective so plumbers, electricians, that sort of thing.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, definitely. And I guess these days some of the areas that you’ve mentioned here, business listings things like your Google My Business, or if you’re in Australia things like Yellow Pages, TrueLocal they’re all places where reviews can be placed but you’re not necessarily alerted about that at the time that it occurs so those are all things that could come up from a branded search perspective on that first page.

John Romaine: Well, you just mentioned then just reminded me of Google Alerts which is a great tool that Google provides. Google provides a tool that allows you to — I mean, Google, as soon as anything hits the Web Google knows about it typically in most cases so for business owners if they’re concerned about people potentially posting negative reviews you can go to what’s called Google Alerts and you can set a rule for a certain search phrase and for business owners, of course, that would be their business name or it might be their actual name themselves.

So in my case I would do — I would set a Google Alert for my own name, John Romaine and for you Byron Trzeciak or you might set a rule for Pixel Rush Studios or I might do Works Media. And of course you can do your URL and so forth. And then you can set that up so that it hits your inbox. Google will actually send you an email and say, hey, someone over here on XYZ’ed.com.au has mentioned your Web site. So if it is a negative review you can get in there quickly and action it as needed.

There are a couple of other tools like Mentions and so forth I think it’s Mention.net is another one. But Google Alerts is definitely a good starting point, place.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah. I think it’s good to be proactive about it in that approach. You know, going back to my security background, again, if something went wrong or you had a security breach or something you wanted to know about it before your clients or your customers knew about it and that’s not from a hiding perspective but you want to be getting on top of it before other people are telling you about it.

So I think being proactive in that space is definitely a smart idea.

John Romaine: Yeah, absolutely. You’ve got to move quickly on this stuff. You don’t want a negative review festering away to the point where everyone finally — it hits social media, people start linking to it because it’s this discussion on a forum that’s gone absolutely pear-shaped. You wan to find this stuff straight away so that you can get straight on top of it whether that be contact the person that left the review or the comment or posted the article or whatever it is and try and work towards a resolution.

But, yeah, the quicker you get on top of it the better.

Byron Trzeciak: Yep.

John Romaine: A couple of others that might be worth mentioning as well is using search query operators which I was talking about just a minute ago and trying searches within Google for your business name plus review or your business name plus testimonial. Your business name plus feedback, scam, complaint, rip-off; those sorts of things can be another good starting point as well.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, definitely. All right so let’s say for example if you use one of these terms and we found something that is negative, where do we start in trying to address that?

John Romaine: Well, you know, that’s easy. You just throw your arms in the air and run around in circles and scream out loud.

Byron Trzeciak: Rebrand.

John Romaine: Yeah, rebrand, burn the domain, start over, you know, it’s really interesting. We joke about that but I’ve actually worked with companies that have actually done it. We can’t get rid of this negative review and it might seem drastic on the surface and for small business owners they need to really think ahead before even considering a rebranding strategy before for small business owners, soloists like plumbers, electricians, carpenters, fences, whatever else, a rebrand for those guys is not going to be such a big deal because they’re probably not heavily invested in their marketing and so forth. Whereas a big organization they’ve got to think about things like their signage and their advertising both online and offline, they may have stationary and business cards and print media. They may even have staff in uniforms. I’m going slightly off topic but, yeah, burning something and starting over because of a negative review is pretty silly because don’t forget you can go through the whole process and someone can blast you with a negative review once you just completed the rebranding process.

So, rebranding is pretty silly but there’s —

Byron Trzeciak: I remember, sorry — I remember speaking with somebody that wanted to — I think they had a negative Google My Business review and they wanted to delete their profile and start again but this My Business listing actually had some rankings in those top results in quite a number of different areas. So I think like what you’ve mentioned in our blog post, John, is sort of don’t become too emotional with it, make sure you think about it rationally before you go on and make any quick decisions because especially from a Google perspective you go ahead and delete things really quickly; you might find that that has a bigger effect on your business.

John Romaine: Yeah, you know, I have been approached by a number of businesses where they’re just not doing good work. You know, and you can see if there’s hundreds of negative reviews well there’s a problem. There’s an internal problem within the business. They’re either not providing value or they’re letting their customers down or something is very wrong.

You know, if I’m approached by a business that’s doing something unethical I just won’t get involved because just do good for people, provide value, help them, and you shouldn’t get these negative reviews but, let’s face it, you’re going to get a negative review at some point regardless of how well your intentions might be because it may be, like I said, a competitive —

But, yeah, you’ve got to keep calm because it — it’s really easy to become emotional very, very quickly because you put in all of this effort, you’re building your online brand, you’re spending money on marketing and so forth and you’re working around the clock and you jump online, you type your business name to Google and then you find on the first page right underneath your listing is business name, scam rip-off report or something and you think, what is this? And you can start firing off emails all over the place to hosting companies and the person that perhaps posted the article and you can be on the (phone) calling people and I’ve had people in tears because of stuff like this. But, you’ve just got to keep your head on.

Byron Trzeciak: 100%.

John Romaine: But it can be stressful because I want to touch on just how much a negative review could be costing you in Google because it can be a lot. It can be a lot more than you think.

Byron Trzeciak: Oh, definitely. Yeah, well I know, I mean, I work with a few businesses in the hospitality industry so TripAdvisor is always a very big one for them and even my wife she worked in some of these hotels as well and they would get negative reviews for people that they could confirm have never actually stayed there. So, you know, — sometimes it’s clear and obvious, you know, you’re like well, like for example if you got a negative review John you would have a pretty good idea about whether you had a client recently that wasn’t happy or didn’t like what you had done or had a negative effect on their business or something. That would — you know, you’d have some idea about that so if you just get something out of the blue then there’s clearly something that’s off in that space but I think Gary Vaynerchuk, John, he’s a big one in terms of how you respond and how you deal with that when it does come about and I think the businesses that are active in their response — and if you provide a solid response to that negative review then people look at it and go, oh, okay, yeah, something’s amiss there. I think I’m automatically looking at things these days and going, not every review is legit, you know what I mean, not the real ones, not the negative ones, not the positive ones. So you’ve got to be very wary about it.

John Romaine: Sometimes I read reviews and I’ll read, you know, even if it’s before I buy a book or something on Amazon and I’ll read through all of the reviews and there might be a thousand reviews and 995 of them are positive reviews and you find yourself, I do, I find myself reading the negative reviews and I think what’s wrong with this person. This book isn’t that bad.

You end up actually siding with the people that leave positive reviews but there’s a real problem in that space with people leaving false reviews. There’s really no way of proving it. I think the best approach for businesses is just do — provide value to your customers, look after your customers and then if you do find a negative review I would highly recommend using Google Alerts to try and stay on top of it.

Reach out to these people and say, listen, I’ve noticed — I’ve found that you posted this negative review. Is there anyway that we could jump on a call. Don’t do it via email, try and get on a phone call and find out what the problem is and come to some sort of agreement so that you can get the review removed whether you offer to work at a heavily discounted rate or free or you fix what’s broken or you just do something in that regard. That’s, you know, that’s always kind of difficult to do. It doesn’t always happen and that’s where we come in when business owners come to us and say, look, we’ve tried contacting these people to have this negative review removed, they’re not interested, can you help?

And that’s where we get on board and we look at flooding the first page of Google with, not, sometimes positive reviews, if possible, that’s not always possible. It depends on the size of the business and how many existing customers they’ve got but typically flooding the first page of Google with properties that, in an effort to push the negative review down the page or off of first page.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, definitely, yeah. I mean, let — do you want to just touch briefly on your kind of quick survey that you did John in terms of what people actually think of negative reviews; maybe just pick up a few of the key ones there about what people’s thoughts were because I thought this was quite interesting to see how each person had their own individual view about whether a review would affect their decision.

John Romaine: Yeah, well, I asked that question on Facebook just out of interest because for me I would — you know, if I saw a negative review I’d probably start digging around a bit deeper. It was — the feedback that I got was really interesting. Everyone had their own sort of answer to the question and the question was, how likely would you be to do business with someone that had a negative review on the first page of Google for their business or brand name?

And some of the answers that I got here certainly reduced the chance that I would. It depends on the content of the review. If it was a serious and verifiable complaint. See, that’s — they’re talking about — they’re looking for legitimacy because everybody knows that, again, it could be a competitor, it could be anyone just having a laugh posting a negative review or leaving something online that’s not factual.

I think one of the guys here was talking about — well, one of the guys said there would be a 20% reduction. I don’t know how he got to that percentage but —

Byron Trzeciak: He’s got his own algorithm that he works with.

John Romaine: Yeah, he’s got his own negative review algorithmic system. But it was about probably ten people that answered my quick question that I posted and only one said that they wouldn’t. So I think people are aware. I think people are smart enough to be able to look and say, well, does this seem like a legitimate negative review or is this just nonsense? Again, it comes probably down to a percentage like one of the respondents said, if there’s 100 positive reviews and there’s only two negative well then it’s — because, let’s face it, you’re always going to — you can’t please everyone, right? You just can’t.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, exactly.

John Romaine: Especially in business but —

Byron Trzeciak: Well, it’s funny the — obviously we’re looking from a negative perspective here but when I was moving house recently I had to get some furniture removal as well and I went straight to the reviews and some of them, you know, have nothing. They don’t have any reviews for their business so they might present nicely but another business there, which was the one that I went with in the end, they had a lot of positive reviews and at the end of the move when they finished they presented me with a piece of paper saying, here’s where you go to give us a positive review. If you’ve had a really good time go and do that.

John Romaine: Okay.

Byron Trzeciak: So I think it’s quite a good point of separation too, when you’ve got three businesses online some people might not have any negative reviews, they might not have any positive reviews, but if one of them does it might be worthwhile checking that out.

John Romaine: Where were they pushing you? Were they pushing to Google Reviews or something like that?

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, Google Reviews I think it was.

John Romaine: Yeah, right, well see that’s a good tip in itself for business owners.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah.

John Romaine: To get people motivated, to get your customers motivated to leave a review, you know, positive reviews certainly increase confidence, lift confidence in new customers so — if I perform a search and I see a whole bunch of positive reviews then chances are I might pick up the phone.

You know, there are people that just love posting negative reviews all of the time. I go out with friends and they go to a restaurant, I’m going to paste this on Yelp when I get home, these eggs are too runny. They get their kicks just out of going to Yelp and posting negative reviews.

I’ve been online since the late 90’s and I think I may have posted — gee I’d be able to count on one hand maybe three or four negative reviews and only because the experience was so horrible and only because I wouldn’t want anyone to go through the pains that I experienced working with certain businesses. That’s the only time I’ll do it. Otherwise I probably won’t bother.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, that makes sense.

John Romaine: Yeah, but just a quick tip because I’m sure — I don’t know if you’ve asked already, but what sort of properties. I mean, we touched on this just a minute ago, what sort of properties can we push to the first page of Google in order to get rid of the negative review or whatever it might be that’s hogging a spot on the first page.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, yeah.

John Romaine: There’s a tool that I mentioned it’s called KnowEm as in KnowEm.com. That’s a tool worth checking out but yeah, check that one out. But foundational link building with citations listing your business within business directories such as Yellow Pages, TrueLocal, Hotfrog for your business name of course and the other one; there’s a whole bunch of those, I won’t go through all of them. The other one is probably taking a look at your social profiles, get all of your social profiles up if you’re a business owner; Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Google+ and so forth. YouTube.

Byron Trzeciak: One thing I might add on the social profiles is that if your company is not active on that profile after you’ve created it then you might not see the results that you wanted it to have so I think you and I John we’re always talking about content. If you’ve got some reputation management that you need to deal with you build your social profiles; keep getting some content on there, keep pushing things to it, give Google a reason to index that and to push it up in the ranking.

John Romaine: Yeah, no you’re exactly right and I’ve got a client at the moment that I’m doing reputation management for and they were asking like where’s our — because looking at their competitors, and that’s another tip I’ll give, look at your — take a look at where your competitors are and what they’ve got on the first page. Chances are if they’ve got all of their social properties on the first page then your social properties should probably be on the first page as well. But they were asking, John, where’s our Facebook page, where’s our Twitter page? They hadn’t been actively posting anything to them probably since 2011. So I said, you guys need to start breathing some life into these properties.

Each and every day now when they’re posting content or sending tweets, Google wants to see some activity and they want to see some level of interaction and I would — another tip that I would give is to make sure that there’s a relationship between your sites and your actual social property. So it should be linking to your social properties from your Web page. I put those links down at the bottom or something. Don’t crowd your phone number or your call to action but —

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, well, even on that I’ve noticed that Yost, the Yost Word Press tool can now embed social metadata into the header of our page as well so that’s something to look at as well. Yeah, I think it’s under the social item within the Yost configuration settings.

John Romaine: You’re not talking about open graph tags or is that something else?

Byron Trzeciak: That’s something else as well.

John Romaine: Okay.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah.

John Romaine: We’ll have to maybe cover that in another Podcast. I might learn something.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah.

John Romaine: I’ll give you another tip here, right, I’m not sure if you know about this one and I’m pretty sure most of the listeners may not know about this one. If you’re a business owner and you’ve got a negative review on the first page of Google, do not under any circumstance, right, perform that search and go, oh shit this negative review is still here in Position 2 and click on the link because, and this has been tested pretty heavily by the guys over at (Mars) looking at click-through rates, how click-through rates can affect the search results and by click-through rates I’m talking about let’s just say you perform a search and you have 100 people click on the result in Position 10 and they’re all clicking from different IP addresses, locations and devices.

That has shown to lift, move, that particular search result up the page because you’re sending the signal to Google saying, hey, there’s something about this result for this particular search phrase that’s getting a lot of click-through traffic so it must be of interest, there must be some level of relevance there.

But as a business owner if you’ve got a negative review on the first page, do not click on it. Make sure you tell our staff, do not click on it because each and every time you do you’re saying, hey Google, this is relevant and this is of interest and it’s likely to move it up the page and that’s not the direction you want to be going in.

Byron Trzeciak: No, definitely not. Yeah, that’s a really interesting point. I think it’s easy for people to continuously search and then click it as if something’s magically changed since the last time you looked at it, but, yeah, very important I think that one.

John Romaine: All right well lastly, do you want to talk about how much a negative review could be potentially costing your business? This one’s frightening when you start crunching the numbers. I’ll start with a quick — this was like a survey that, again, the guys over at (Mars) did and I’m not sure actually if they rebroadcast these figures. I think it may have been a survey done elsewhere and then it was, of course, made popular over at (Mars) but the click-through rates for the top ten results within Google, so I’m talking about the first page, right? According to statistics and the surveys that are being done, and I don’t know how they gather this data, but these are the numbers that were presented; 31% of the traffic will click on the result in Position 1. 14% will click on Position 2. 10% of the traffic will click on Position 3, 7% for Position 4, 6% for Position 5 then it kind of flat-lines, Position 6 to 10 is 4%, then over off to the second page, third page, it drops down to 2% because let’s face it, not many people go that deep.

Byron Trzeciak: No, definitely.

John Romaine: So in order to calculate how much a negative review might be costing your business, right, there’s some figures that I’ve scribbled down here. You need to take a look at — we’re looking at individual search queries, right? So let’s just say that they’ve got a negative review that’s halfway down the page, right, so it’s in Position 5 for a search term of interest. It might be their business name or something else and they’re popping up in Position 5.

So, the first thing to do is take a look at the searches per month because we want to get an idea of the actual search volume. How many people are actually searching for this per month, right?

Byron Trzeciak: Sure.

John Romaine: Now, just scribble down some numbers here so let’s just say for example sake 1500 searches per month. All right? Now it takes 1500 searches per month, we know we’re in Position 5 which is 6% of the traffic, okay, so 6% of 1500 searches, right, gives us 90. So chances are each month 90 people are clicking on that negative review. Now, there’s something that I should note here, negative reviews are probably performing much higher than just standard search results because they tend to draw the eye, right, especially if you see scam, rip-off or complaints or things like that because you’ll scroll — oh, what’s this? So chances are it could be actually higher than this but we’ll work at a conservative figure.

Byron Trzeciak: Certainly as well if they’ve got the star review sign or it’s got some review metadata in there which sometimes you can get some stars like they’re getting one out of five stars or something. Sometimes that graphic can show up as well in search results which is very attracting to the eye.

John Romaine: Yeah, so the click-through rates for negative reviews and so forth might actually be higher than the numbers that I’ve equated but we’ll stick with what we know. So, 6% — so 1500 divided by six, it gives us 90. So potentially 90 people might be clicking on that particular negative review.

Now, as a business owner you need to think about what a customer is worth to you, what a lead is worth to you and, again, I just pulled a figure off the top of my head and I’m thinking about just like plumbers or electricians where they might go out and install lights or fix blocked drainage or something and for this example I just chose $800 because sometimes you might get repeat business so I could be over, I could be under. But I’ve just chosen $800 so 90 times $800 is $72,000 a month. So that — a negative review and, let’s face it, you’re not going to close a deal with every inquiry that comes through so even if you have that and look at 50%, you’re still looking at, what is that, $36,000 a month.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah.

John Romaine: I haven’t got my trusty calculator with me.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah. You’re running the show here with the numbers.

John Romaine: 90 times — let me crunch some numbers here. No, that’s right, $72,000. So —

Byron Trzeciak: I just love it that that sounded like a real calculator in the background there.

John Romaine: That was a — dude that was — it was a real calculator.

Byron Trzeciak: Amazing. They still exist?

John Romaine: Yeah, that’s a real calculator.

Byron Trzeciak: If anybody is out there collecting, you know, archaic items then call John, he’s got one for you.

John Romaine: This is a solar powered calculator.

Byron Trzeciak: In Melbourne that thing would never work in Melbourne.

John Romaine: Yeah, well I don’t know how it’s still kicking because it never sees the light of day but it hasn’t let me down yet. So that’s a quick way of calculating what a negative review might be costing your business and let’s face it, it could be less, it could be more. If the big businesses, if they’re looking at, you know, each lead or transaction is worth $10,000 I mean that’s a lot of money and even for small business owners that — $800 transaction, $70,000 a month it adds up to a lot of money.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah, definitely.

John Romaine: So — and this is something that I wanted to touch on especially within this episode because quite often I’ll have business owners come to me and they’ll say we need help, we’ve got this negative review here and we want to get rid of it and I’ll send a quote for $2000 a month or whatever it might be and they’ll come back and say, ah, this is far too expensive. And then when I start crunching numbers and they can see that they’re losing $50, $60, $100,000 a month, it puts it into perspective. It’s going to cost you a lot more than $2000 a month if you don’t do this.

Byron Trzeciak: All right so I’m just conscious of time here John but did you want to discuss briefly how to regain control and what businesses can do? I mean, we’ve touched on a little bit already but did you want to just summarize maybe some of the tactics that you can take to respond to some negative reviews for your business?

John Romaine: Just the recap. I think use Google Alerts to be notified of your brand because it’s all about protecting your brand. You want to know what people are saying and what people are talking about. So, use that tool; Google Alerts. Act — be proactive. Try and stay on top of this stuff and address it as it presents itself. Remain calm. Contact the person that’s left the negative review or — see if you can come to some sort of resolution outside of having to take it any further but if you want to take it on yourself take a look at the tool KnowEm but alternatively come and see myself or Byron. We do this stuff 24/7, we’re helping clients with it all of the time so come and see us and we’ll crunch some numbers and take a look at where things are at and provide some solid advice and assistance.

Byron Trzeciak: Definitely, yeah. Definitely. All right John, well that wraps up Podcast Number 30. Thanks for your time again.

John Romaine: No worries, thanks for yours Byron.

Byron Trzeciak: No worries, yeah.

John Romaine: Piece of cake.

Byron Trzeciak: Definitely, yeah, now I’ve got to go and find a piece of cake I think.

John Romaine: I might — I’m going to play with my calculator.

Byron Trzeciak: Go for it yeah. I just like the sound of it, it’s old school.

John Romaine: Was it 5, 8, 0, 0, 8 — Anyway, let’s get out of here.

Byron Trzeciak: Yeah. I’ll see you around John.

John Romaine: I’ll see you next week.

Byron Trzeciak: See you later.

John Romaine: See you dude, bye.